1 00:00:08,470 --> 00:00:06,630 [Music] 2 00:00:11,270 --> 00:00:08,480 welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:11,280 the podcast from australia for science 4 00:00:23,269 --> 00:00:16,850 and reason 5 00:00:25,029 --> 00:00:23,279 [Music] 6 00:00:27,509 --> 00:00:25,039 yes it's the skeptic zone podcast 7 00:00:30,150 --> 00:00:27,519 episode number 623 8 00:00:31,509 --> 00:00:30,160 for the 20th of september 2020 richard 9 00:00:32,870 --> 00:00:31,519 saunders coming to you from sydney 10 00:00:36,310 --> 00:00:32,880 australia 11 00:00:38,709 --> 00:00:36,320 oh it's wet raining wet cold 12 00:00:40,950 --> 00:00:38,719 well not really cold lots of birds 13 00:00:42,150 --> 00:00:40,960 outside for some reason 14 00:00:45,110 --> 00:00:42,160 i don't know what's going on maybe 15 00:00:46,790 --> 00:00:45,120 they're sheltering from the rain 16 00:00:48,630 --> 00:00:46,800 moored the skeptic zone cat is at the 17 00:00:52,709 --> 00:00:48,640 window trying to catch them 18 00:00:57,189 --> 00:00:55,110 oh that's a cockatoo there are cockatoos 19 00:00:58,630 --> 00:00:57,199 and rainbow lorikeets being very noisy 20 00:01:00,549 --> 00:00:58,640 outside 21 00:01:01,910 --> 00:01:00,559 coming up on this week's show michelle 22 00:01:04,549 --> 00:01:01,920 biggesmar 23 00:01:07,350 --> 00:01:04,559 reporter in melbourne reports on 24 00:01:11,429 --> 00:01:07,360 anti-covet 19 25 00:01:13,350 --> 00:01:11,439 graffiti or pro-conspiracy graffiti 26 00:01:14,950 --> 00:01:13,360 if you know what i mean written on 27 00:01:16,310 --> 00:01:14,960 buildings and on the sidewalks and 28 00:01:18,710 --> 00:01:16,320 things like that 29 00:01:19,749 --> 00:01:18,720 and the efforts some creative people 30 00:01:23,109 --> 00:01:19,759 have gone to 31 00:01:26,310 --> 00:01:23,119 to turn that graffiti around 32 00:01:28,149 --> 00:01:26,320 sort of anti-graffiti graffiti 33 00:01:29,590 --> 00:01:28,159 but confusing coming up at the top of 34 00:01:32,069 --> 00:01:29,600 the show 35 00:01:33,030 --> 00:01:32,079 after that we have a report from 36 00:01:36,469 --> 00:01:33,040 protests 37 00:01:38,789 --> 00:01:36,479 in melbourne of last weekend where 38 00:01:40,469 --> 00:01:38,799 oh the birds are back maybe they're 39 00:01:43,830 --> 00:01:40,479 going to go to the protest 40 00:01:46,069 --> 00:01:43,840 where um because you know mainly 41 00:01:47,590 --> 00:01:46,079 i would suspect uh spurred on by 42 00:01:49,830 --> 00:01:47,600 conspiracy theories 43 00:01:51,590 --> 00:01:49,840 people are out flaunting the rules and 44 00:01:54,950 --> 00:01:51,600 marching and protesting 45 00:01:58,230 --> 00:01:54,960 um against the lockdown and face masks 46 00:02:00,069 --> 00:01:58,240 and i notice just yesterday which was 47 00:02:02,069 --> 00:02:00,079 saturday here in australia 48 00:02:03,990 --> 00:02:02,079 that more people were being arrested in 49 00:02:04,789 --> 00:02:04,000 melbourne for running around with signs 50 00:02:11,270 --> 00:02:04,799 and 51 00:02:13,750 --> 00:02:11,280 there's always going to be a certain 52 00:02:17,110 --> 00:02:13,760 percentage of the population 53 00:02:21,270 --> 00:02:17,120 carried away carried away i think by 54 00:02:23,110 --> 00:02:21,280 the ideas that covet 19 is a hoax 55 00:02:24,390 --> 00:02:23,120 oh no wonder the birds were stopped and 56 00:02:27,750 --> 00:02:24,400 they started and stopped again the 57 00:02:30,949 --> 00:02:27,760 rain's getting heavier out there 58 00:02:32,150 --> 00:02:30,959 oh well ah you i mean you do like 59 00:02:34,150 --> 00:02:32,160 hearing the weather 60 00:02:35,750 --> 00:02:34,160 in sydney australia don't you i mean 61 00:02:39,030 --> 00:02:35,760 that's why you listen to the show 62 00:02:40,790 --> 00:02:39,040 after that we have the book of dim 63 00:02:42,949 --> 00:02:40,800 the return of the book of dim with tim 64 00:02:45,110 --> 00:02:42,959 mendem and this week 65 00:02:46,869 --> 00:02:45,120 tim will be reading from a section of 66 00:02:47,990 --> 00:02:46,879 the skeptic magazine called what goes 67 00:02:51,350 --> 00:02:48,000 around 68 00:02:54,869 --> 00:02:51,360 about graphology writing profile 69 00:02:55,509 --> 00:02:54,879 testing and woo following that we have 70 00:02:58,869 --> 00:02:55,519 the 71 00:03:01,350 --> 00:02:58,879 strange situation where i i decided to 72 00:03:04,149 --> 00:03:01,360 go to a convention about 73 00:03:06,070 --> 00:03:04,159 the secret remember that the secret and 74 00:03:08,550 --> 00:03:06,080 the law of attraction and all that 75 00:03:10,390 --> 00:03:08,560 anyway i turn up this convention and 76 00:03:13,430 --> 00:03:10,400 strangely 77 00:03:16,550 --> 00:03:13,440 it's not exactly what i was expecting 78 00:03:17,670 --> 00:03:16,560 find out a bit later on well it's really 79 00:03:20,470 --> 00:03:17,680 bucketing down out there 80 00:03:21,430 --> 00:03:20,480 then to round off the show we have 81 00:03:25,110 --> 00:03:21,440 another trip 82 00:03:28,630 --> 00:03:25,120 another dive into the trove 83 00:03:32,229 --> 00:03:28,640 that is trove the trove 84 00:03:33,350 --> 00:03:32,239 online resource of magazines periodicals 85 00:03:36,470 --> 00:03:33,360 newspapers from 86 00:03:37,830 --> 00:03:36,480 australian history and this week my 87 00:03:40,869 --> 00:03:37,840 search for 88 00:03:43,430 --> 00:03:40,879 flying sources and ufos 89 00:03:44,229 --> 00:03:43,440 what comes up in the pages of australian 90 00:03:47,750 --> 00:03:44,239 newspapers 91 00:03:50,149 --> 00:03:47,760 dating back decades and decades 92 00:03:51,830 --> 00:03:50,159 now before we get stuck into the show 93 00:03:55,509 --> 00:03:51,840 just the other day 94 00:03:58,630 --> 00:03:55,519 uh friday here in sydney i and maynard 95 00:04:00,550 --> 00:03:58,640 did a live trivia quiz on facebook via 96 00:04:03,190 --> 00:04:00,560 maynard's facebook page 97 00:04:04,710 --> 00:04:03,200 and that is still up there you can watch 98 00:04:06,309 --> 00:04:04,720 that all over again if you saw it the 99 00:04:07,910 --> 00:04:06,319 first time and have another laugh 100 00:04:10,149 --> 00:04:07,920 or you can watch it for the first time 101 00:04:11,110 --> 00:04:10,159 and see how you go with maynard's trivia 102 00:04:13,910 --> 00:04:11,120 quiz 103 00:04:16,069 --> 00:04:13,920 and of course to put your mind at rest 104 00:04:17,670 --> 00:04:16,079 we made sure we were at the right social 105 00:04:20,390 --> 00:04:17,680 distance from each other 106 00:04:21,670 --> 00:04:20,400 in a very tiny studio somehow we got 107 00:04:23,590 --> 00:04:21,680 away with it 108 00:04:25,430 --> 00:04:23,600 anyway i will link to that in this 109 00:04:26,710 --> 00:04:25,440 week's show notes 110 00:04:28,469 --> 00:04:26,720 but now it's time for me to run 111 00:04:30,550 --> 00:04:28,479 downstairs well actually before i do 112 00:04:33,670 --> 00:04:30,560 that i really hope 113 00:04:36,790 --> 00:04:33,680 what's going on out there 114 00:04:37,990 --> 00:04:36,800 it's like a strange someone's out there 115 00:04:39,189 --> 00:04:38,000 tipping a bucket i don't know what's 116 00:04:42,230 --> 00:04:39,199 going on 117 00:04:44,790 --> 00:04:42,240 but i hope wherever you are in the world 118 00:04:46,469 --> 00:04:44,800 that uh you've been able to find at 119 00:04:49,030 --> 00:04:46,479 least some time to relax 120 00:04:51,030 --> 00:04:49,040 and take things a bit easier and uh 121 00:04:54,390 --> 00:04:51,040 maybe give your mind a bit of a rest 122 00:04:56,070 --> 00:04:54,400 it's very important maybe the skeptic 123 00:04:59,030 --> 00:04:56,080 zone can help 124 00:05:01,590 --> 00:04:59,040 transport you away for a little while 125 00:05:02,950 --> 00:05:01,600 like that bird 126 00:05:04,629 --> 00:05:02,960 but now it's time for me to run 127 00:05:08,310 --> 00:05:04,639 downstairs 128 00:05:10,870 --> 00:05:08,320 and i think on such a wet day a nice uh 129 00:05:11,510 --> 00:05:10,880 a nice tin of soup might be just the 130 00:05:14,469 --> 00:05:11,520 thing 131 00:05:15,749 --> 00:05:14,479 with toast of course while i do that i 132 00:05:30,180 --> 00:05:15,759 hope you enjoy 133 00:05:36,070 --> 00:05:33,189 [Music] 134 00:05:37,510 --> 00:05:36,080 hello skeptic zone listeners this is 135 00:05:39,990 --> 00:05:37,520 michelle bickersma 136 00:05:40,830 --> 00:05:40,000 coming to you from lockdown in melbourne 137 00:05:45,110 --> 00:05:40,840 australia 138 00:05:48,790 --> 00:05:48,310 we've reached our target of less than 50 139 00:05:51,990 --> 00:05:48,800 new 140 00:05:54,790 --> 00:05:52,000 covert 19 cases per day and 141 00:05:57,510 --> 00:05:54,800 we are about to enter our final week of 142 00:06:00,469 --> 00:05:57,520 stage four restrictions 143 00:06:01,510 --> 00:06:00,479 this means that we can exercise for two 144 00:06:05,430 --> 00:06:01,520 hours a day 145 00:06:08,950 --> 00:06:05,440 within a five kilometer radius from home 146 00:06:10,950 --> 00:06:08,960 so on this glorious sunny day i headed 147 00:06:14,309 --> 00:06:10,960 off for a walk in the park with an 148 00:06:15,170 --> 00:06:14,319 aim to visit the iconic and mighty yarra 149 00:06:17,749 --> 00:06:15,180 river 150 00:06:20,870 --> 00:06:17,759 [Music] 151 00:06:21,350 --> 00:06:20,880 on my way i was delighted to see that 152 00:06:24,070 --> 00:06:21,360 the 153 00:06:25,510 --> 00:06:24,080 covert is a hoax graffiti that had 154 00:06:28,950 --> 00:06:25,520 vandalised the bridge 155 00:06:31,350 --> 00:06:28,960 had been removed and further moments of 156 00:06:34,230 --> 00:06:31,360 joy lay ahead 157 00:06:37,350 --> 00:06:34,240 i came across a worker who was cleaning 158 00:06:39,670 --> 00:06:37,360 covert is a scam graffiti off the path 159 00:06:42,070 --> 00:06:39,680 and discovered that removing the 160 00:06:45,749 --> 00:06:42,080 ridiculous slogans was deemed 161 00:06:48,870 --> 00:06:45,759 essential work this was the workers 162 00:06:51,749 --> 00:06:48,880 third day of work in around six weeks 163 00:06:52,550 --> 00:06:51,759 so i was interested and heartened that 164 00:06:55,830 --> 00:06:52,560 it had been 165 00:06:57,029 --> 00:06:55,840 recognized as so important although i'm 166 00:06:59,589 --> 00:06:57,039 very sympathetic 167 00:07:01,990 --> 00:06:59,599 about the hardship associated with the 168 00:07:05,430 --> 00:07:02,000 lack of work opportunities that are 169 00:07:08,309 --> 00:07:05,440 being experienced by many 170 00:07:10,390 --> 00:07:08,319 walking along the track i discovered the 171 00:07:13,510 --> 00:07:10,400 extent to which the path had been 172 00:07:16,870 --> 00:07:13,520 vandalized with covert denying claims 173 00:07:20,710 --> 00:07:16,880 stretching for a couple of kilometers 174 00:07:23,029 --> 00:07:20,720 however i was also delighted to discover 175 00:07:26,150 --> 00:07:23,039 that a member of my community has 176 00:07:27,909 --> 00:07:26,160 responded creatively to the anti-mask 177 00:07:31,510 --> 00:07:27,919 wearing slogan earring 178 00:07:32,710 --> 00:07:31,520 in chalk and not paint so a counteract 179 00:07:35,749 --> 00:07:32,720 of vandalism 180 00:07:39,110 --> 00:07:35,759 can't really be said to apply 181 00:07:40,070 --> 00:07:39,120 covet is a hoax has been transformed 182 00:07:43,189 --> 00:07:40,080 into 183 00:07:46,550 --> 00:07:43,199 covert this could be hope 184 00:07:49,830 --> 00:07:46,560 there is no virus wake up 185 00:07:53,350 --> 00:07:49,840 now reed says there is no by 186 00:07:54,309 --> 00:07:53,360 russian shake-up take off your slave 187 00:07:57,029 --> 00:07:54,319 mask 188 00:07:57,990 --> 00:07:57,039 has the appropriate addition of 189 00:08:01,390 --> 00:07:58,000 ventilator 190 00:08:04,869 --> 00:08:01,400 masks are much more fun 191 00:08:07,990 --> 00:08:04,879 hilariously government lies 192 00:08:11,990 --> 00:08:08,000 wake up now reed says 193 00:08:15,589 --> 00:08:12,000 go mint pies bake up 194 00:08:18,790 --> 00:08:15,599 followed by take your mask off 195 00:08:23,189 --> 00:08:18,800 perfectly transformed into what else 196 00:08:26,390 --> 00:08:23,199 but take your pants off 197 00:08:29,830 --> 00:08:26,400 finally take off your muzzle 198 00:08:31,909 --> 00:08:29,840 has now a better and more useful 199 00:08:35,190 --> 00:08:31,919 suggestion that reads 200 00:08:37,750 --> 00:08:35,200 time for a puzzle 201 00:08:38,949 --> 00:08:37,760 of course there were more standard but 202 00:08:42,310 --> 00:08:38,959 still worthwhile 203 00:08:47,670 --> 00:08:42,320 transformations like covert is not 204 00:08:49,910 --> 00:08:47,680 a hoax with the word not being inserted 205 00:08:51,190 --> 00:08:49,920 this will all be cleaned off by the end 206 00:08:53,590 --> 00:08:51,200 of the day 207 00:08:54,550 --> 00:08:53,600 but i'm pleased that i was able to 208 00:08:57,590 --> 00:08:54,560 capture it 209 00:08:58,710 --> 00:08:57,600 and feel really great that rationality 210 00:09:02,550 --> 00:08:58,720 prevails in my 211 00:09:05,990 --> 00:09:02,560 town as we've been saying 212 00:09:09,680 --> 00:09:06,000 we've got this melbourne see you on the 213 00:09:19,030 --> 00:09:09,690 other side 214 00:09:22,389 --> 00:09:21,030 join us on the first thursday of the 215 00:09:25,829 --> 00:09:22,399 month for sydney 216 00:09:28,310 --> 00:09:25,839 skeptics in the pub online 217 00:09:29,590 --> 00:09:28,320 on the 1st of october we proudly present 218 00:09:32,949 --> 00:09:29,600 a talk by 219 00:09:36,150 --> 00:09:32,959 ben radford the truth about 220 00:09:38,470 --> 00:09:36,160 ghosts and ghost hunting 221 00:09:39,509 --> 00:09:38,480 we have all seen ghosts in film and on 222 00:09:42,470 --> 00:09:39,519 television 223 00:09:43,430 --> 00:09:42,480 from poltergeist to medium to ghost 224 00:09:45,990 --> 00:09:43,440 hunters 225 00:09:47,430 --> 00:09:46,000 but how much of this is real and how 226 00:09:50,470 --> 00:09:47,440 much is fiction 227 00:09:52,870 --> 00:09:50,480 what does science tell us about ghosts 228 00:09:54,790 --> 00:09:52,880 what kinds of evidence are offered for 229 00:09:57,430 --> 00:09:54,800 the existence of ghosts 230 00:09:58,230 --> 00:09:57,440 and how valid is that evidence 231 00:10:01,030 --> 00:09:58,240 researcher 232 00:10:01,670 --> 00:10:01,040 and folklorist benjamin radford will 233 00:10:03,829 --> 00:10:01,680 discuss 234 00:10:04,949 --> 00:10:03,839 several case studies of his ghost 235 00:10:07,509 --> 00:10:04,959 investigations 236 00:10:09,430 --> 00:10:07,519 included in his books scientific 237 00:10:12,069 --> 00:10:09,440 paranormal investigation 238 00:10:14,230 --> 00:10:12,079 how to solve unexplained mysteries 239 00:10:17,190 --> 00:10:14,240 mysterious new mexico 240 00:10:20,150 --> 00:10:17,200 and investigating ghosts the scientific 241 00:10:22,150 --> 00:10:20,160 search for spirits 242 00:10:23,750 --> 00:10:22,160 questions from the audience will follow 243 00:10:26,230 --> 00:10:23,760 the talk 244 00:10:27,590 --> 00:10:26,240 sydney skeptics in the pub online 245 00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:27,600 october the 1st 246 00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:31,120 at 7 pm sydney time to tune in 247 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:34,720 just go to www.twitch.tv 248 00:10:53,750 --> 00:10:51,430 [Music] 249 00:10:56,310 --> 00:10:53,760 last weekend in melbourne there were a 250 00:10:59,350 --> 00:10:56,320 series of violent protests against uh 251 00:11:02,550 --> 00:10:59,360 the lockdown measures and we pick up 252 00:11:05,829 --> 00:11:02,560 a story here written in the age 253 00:11:10,310 --> 00:11:05,839 newspaper by ashley mcmillan 254 00:11:12,310 --> 00:11:10,320 simone fox coob and aaron pearson 255 00:11:14,310 --> 00:11:12,320 violence erupted at melbourne's queen 256 00:11:17,110 --> 00:11:14,320 victoria market on sunday 257 00:11:18,150 --> 00:11:17,120 as police clashed with anti-lockdown 258 00:11:21,030 --> 00:11:18,160 protesters 259 00:11:23,430 --> 00:11:21,040 among its fruit and vegetable stores 260 00:11:26,949 --> 00:11:23,440 police arrested 74 protesters and 261 00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:26,959 issued more than 280 262 00:11:31,829 --> 00:11:29,920 thousand 000 in fines to those caught 263 00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:31,839 breaching lockdown restrictions 264 00:11:36,069 --> 00:11:34,160 including the protesters 44 year old 265 00:11:38,949 --> 00:11:36,079 leader who's now facing an 266 00:11:40,790 --> 00:11:38,959 incitement charge as police prepare a 267 00:11:42,630 --> 00:11:40,800 search warrant for the man's burwood 268 00:11:46,030 --> 00:11:42,640 east home 269 00:11:48,710 --> 00:11:46,040 in angry and heated exchanges close to 270 00:11:50,470 --> 00:11:48,720 250 protesters opposing the government's 271 00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:50,480 coronavirus restrictions 272 00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:52,880 flocked to the markets from about 11am 273 00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:53,920 on sunday 274 00:11:57,670 --> 00:11:56,399 a police spokesman said many protesters 275 00:12:00,069 --> 00:11:57,680 were aggressive and 276 00:12:18,550 --> 00:12:00,079 threatened violence towards officers 277 00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:21,350 now it goes on to say the location of 278 00:12:26,069 --> 00:12:23,200 the protest had been kept 279 00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:26,079 largely a secret before being posted on 280 00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:27,040 social media 281 00:12:31,509 --> 00:12:30,079 about an hour before it began the 282 00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:31,519 protesters chanted 283 00:12:35,430 --> 00:12:34,639 peace and love and freedom before they 284 00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:35,440 were plucked 285 00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:37,680 from the crowd individually and taken 286 00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:38,880 away for questioning 287 00:12:42,310 --> 00:12:41,600 as objects were thrown at heavily armed 288 00:12:45,590 --> 00:12:42,320 police 289 00:12:46,949 --> 00:12:45,600 in riot gear stunned shoppers stood and 290 00:12:49,430 --> 00:12:46,959 watched as police stood 291 00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:49,440 shoulder to shoulder in a ring of steel 292 00:12:53,829 --> 00:12:51,440 around the western side of the market 293 00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:53,839 with one distressed woman treated for 294 00:12:58,710 --> 00:12:56,720 shock outside a stand of bananas 295 00:13:00,470 --> 00:12:58,720 a police spokesman said many protesters 296 00:13:01,590 --> 00:13:00,480 were aggressive and threatened violence 297 00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:01,600 towards officers 298 00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:04,079 with one charged with assaulting police 299 00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:05,760 now there are many other reports in the 300 00:13:11,110 --> 00:13:08,560 media and on the tv news etc 301 00:13:12,550 --> 00:13:11,120 about this um protest but i thought i'd 302 00:13:14,949 --> 00:13:12,560 play you a very short clip 303 00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:14,959 here of one of the protesters as she was 304 00:13:18,790 --> 00:13:15,839 being 305 00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:18,800 led away by police the virus hasn't been 306 00:13:22,629 --> 00:13:19,680 proven 307 00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:22,639 the testing is a sham it's decimating 308 00:13:25,829 --> 00:13:24,079 our whole economy 309 00:13:27,670 --> 00:13:25,839 so while we can understand the 310 00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:27,680 frustration of people in melbourne 311 00:13:32,069 --> 00:13:30,480 having been under the restrictions of 312 00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:32,079 lockdown for longer than any 313 00:13:36,069 --> 00:13:34,560 other part of australia it's worth 314 00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:36,079 noting that 315 00:13:41,590 --> 00:13:39,440 it's because of these strict lockdowns 316 00:13:43,350 --> 00:13:41,600 over the past week or so the numbers of 317 00:13:46,470 --> 00:13:43,360 infections recorded in the state of 318 00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:46,480 victoria have been plummeting 319 00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:49,440 it's all very well to protest and scream 320 00:13:54,389 --> 00:13:51,760 freedom and conspiracy theory 321 00:13:54,949 --> 00:13:54,399 but we dread to think what would happen 322 00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:54,959 if 323 00:13:58,389 --> 00:13:57,360 uh these restrictions weren't put in 324 00:14:01,509 --> 00:13:58,399 place 325 00:14:04,230 --> 00:14:01,519 and again i just keep thinking about 326 00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:04,240 my friend tim farley and the work he did 327 00:14:08,230 --> 00:14:05,040 on 328 00:14:09,430 --> 00:14:08,240 his website what's the harm well what's 329 00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:09,440 the harm in 330 00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:12,000 following conspiracy theories online and 331 00:14:17,509 --> 00:14:14,800 believing that the virus is nonsense 332 00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:17,519 well the harm is very real it can lead 333 00:14:22,150 --> 00:14:18,800 indirectly to people 334 00:14:24,069 --> 00:14:22,160 dying if enough people believe the virus 335 00:14:26,470 --> 00:14:24,079 is a hoax and went around 336 00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:26,480 in society without the appropriate 337 00:14:30,389 --> 00:14:28,639 measures in a time of pandemic then 338 00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:30,399 people will die 339 00:14:34,310 --> 00:14:33,040 and it appears to me that a lot of these 340 00:14:36,389 --> 00:14:34,320 people who are involved in these 341 00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:36,399 protests are 342 00:14:43,350 --> 00:14:39,680 are passionate enough 343 00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:43,360 to get out there and risk being arrested 344 00:14:46,550 --> 00:14:44,000 and massive 345 00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:46,560 fines in the rest of it maybe some mob 346 00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:48,800 mentality going on there as well 347 00:14:53,269 --> 00:14:51,920 but as victorian premier daniel andrews 348 00:14:56,470 --> 00:14:53,279 has said that uh 349 00:15:01,910 --> 00:14:56,480 protests of this nature at this time 350 00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:03,990 i'll link to that story in this week's 351 00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:05,760 show notes 352 00:15:12,570 --> 00:15:09,360 and sadly i suspect that there will be 353 00:15:22,870 --> 00:15:12,580 more protests for melbourne to come 354 00:15:29,910 --> 00:15:26,150 skeptics cafe online from victoria 355 00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:29,920 australia no matter where you are in the 356 00:15:34,550 --> 00:15:30,720 world 357 00:15:38,069 --> 00:15:34,560 join us on the 21st of september 2020 358 00:15:40,949 --> 00:15:38,079 for a live online talk 359 00:15:41,990 --> 00:15:40,959 richard saunders presents highlights and 360 00:15:45,749 --> 00:15:42,000 low lights of 361 00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:45,759 20 years of skeptical investigations 362 00:15:49,829 --> 00:15:47,440 richard will take you on a journey 363 00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:49,839 covering 20 years of skeptical work 364 00:15:54,230 --> 00:15:52,639 and adventures what was found at the 365 00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:54,240 haunted school 366 00:15:58,310 --> 00:15:56,560 what did the water diviners of victoria 367 00:16:00,230 --> 00:15:58,320 say after attempting to win the 368 00:16:01,050 --> 00:16:00,240 australian skeptics a hundred thousand 369 00:16:02,550 --> 00:16:01,060 dollar prize 370 00:16:05,110 --> 00:16:02,560 [Music] 371 00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:05,120 how did an afternoon in adelaide lead to 372 00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:07,360 the downfall of a multi-million dollar 373 00:16:12,710 --> 00:16:10,320 company in california 374 00:16:15,189 --> 00:16:12,720 why did saunders sleep under a table in 375 00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:15,199 las vegas 376 00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:18,000 how did a tv news show stitch up the 377 00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:19,279 skeptics 378 00:16:25,990 --> 00:16:22,560 and much more 379 00:16:29,069 --> 00:16:26,000 join us via zoom 8 pm for a chat 380 00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:29,079 and then the talk begins at 8 30 pm 381 00:16:36,069 --> 00:16:32,800 aest time that's 11 am 382 00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:36,079 on the 21st uk time 3 383 00:16:45,749 --> 00:16:39,600 am on the 21st west coast usa 384 00:16:51,310 --> 00:16:47,990 for more information and the zoom link 385 00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:53,509 www.facebook.com 386 00:16:59,269 --> 00:16:57,279 the skeptics cafe or check out the show 387 00:17:04,549 --> 00:16:59,279 notes in this week's episode of the 388 00:17:18,230 --> 00:17:04,559 skeptic zone podcast 389 00:17:21,710 --> 00:17:18,240 see you there 390 00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:21,720 and now a reading from the book of tim 391 00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:24,480 [Music] 392 00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:33,120 with tim menden 393 00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:35,280 hi my name is tim menden i'm the 394 00:17:37,830 --> 00:17:37,280 executive officer of australian skeptics 395 00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:37,840 inc 396 00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:39,600 and i'm the editor of our magazine the 397 00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:41,039 skeptic 398 00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:42,559 and today's book of tim comes from the 399 00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:45,760 skeptic september 2018 400 00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:49,039 which is volume 38 number three 401 00:17:53,350 --> 00:17:50,640 and i'll be reading today from a regular 402 00:17:55,190 --> 00:17:53,360 column called what goes around 403 00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:55,200 and basically the premise of this is 404 00:17:59,029 --> 00:17:56,640 that we start off with a 405 00:18:00,789 --> 00:17:59,039 few facts and then we find associated 406 00:18:01,190 --> 00:18:00,799 facts that go on and on and on until we 407 00:18:03,750 --> 00:18:01,200 end up 408 00:18:05,430 --> 00:18:03,760 back where we started which shows that 409 00:18:08,549 --> 00:18:05,440 all knowledge is connected 410 00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:08,559 and connectable and in this episode i'll 411 00:18:14,549 --> 00:18:09,840 be looking at writing 412 00:18:18,980 --> 00:18:14,559 profiling testing and woo looking 413 00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:21,590 [Music] 414 00:18:25,750 --> 00:18:23,280 graphology is the analysis of 415 00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:25,760 handwriting purporting to identify 416 00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:27,360 personality characteristics of the 417 00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:28,880 writer 418 00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:30,880 as such it should be differentiated from 419 00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:32,640 handwriting analysis 420 00:18:36,549 --> 00:18:34,400 which describes the identification of 421 00:18:39,510 --> 00:18:36,559 writers by their writing 422 00:18:41,590 --> 00:18:39,520 often used in forensic circumstances the 423 00:18:44,789 --> 00:18:41,600 british institute of graphologist says 424 00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:44,799 graphology is a blend of art and science 425 00:18:47,909 --> 00:18:46,480 it is a science because it measures the 426 00:18:50,630 --> 00:18:47,919 structure and movement 427 00:18:51,590 --> 00:18:50,640 of the written forms slants angles and 428 00:18:53,350 --> 00:18:51,600 spacing 429 00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:53,360 are accurately calculated and the 430 00:18:57,669 --> 00:18:54,799 pressure is observed 431 00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:57,679 in magnification and with precision and 432 00:19:00,789 --> 00:18:58,640 it is an art 433 00:19:02,310 --> 00:19:00,799 because the graphologist has constantly 434 00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:02,320 to keep in mind the 435 00:19:06,070 --> 00:19:04,960 total context in which the writing is 436 00:19:09,029 --> 00:19:06,080 taking place 437 00:19:11,110 --> 00:19:09,039 the gestalt of the writing as a whole 438 00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:11,120 now despite the institute's claims 439 00:19:16,390 --> 00:19:14,000 graphology is regarded as pseudoscience 440 00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:16,400 nonetheless it does have a long heritage 441 00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:18,960 with spanish physician juan huatei de 442 00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:20,000 san juan 443 00:19:24,070 --> 00:19:23,039 referring to it in his 1975 the 444 00:19:26,390 --> 00:19:24,080 examination of 445 00:19:28,470 --> 00:19:26,400 men's wits and i won't try and read the 446 00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:28,480 spanish version 447 00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:31,120 joy ibalit misha founded the society 448 00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:32,160 graphologic 449 00:19:36,630 --> 00:19:35,600 in 1871 alfred binet was a french 450 00:19:38,789 --> 00:19:36,640 psychologist 451 00:19:40,950 --> 00:19:38,799 who is credited with inventing the first 452 00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:40,960 reliable intelligence test 453 00:19:44,310 --> 00:19:43,200 he called graphology the science of the 454 00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:44,320 future 455 00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:46,160 despite rejection of his results by 456 00:19:50,549 --> 00:19:48,400 graphologists 457 00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:50,559 as unsubstantiated as it is the main 458 00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:52,320 application of graphology 459 00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:55,679 is psychological analysis marital 460 00:20:02,230 --> 00:19:58,799 compatibility employment profiling 461 00:20:04,149 --> 00:20:02,240 and even medical diagnosis although this 462 00:20:06,230 --> 00:20:04,159 is often not regarded as graphology 463 00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:06,240 pertaining more to motor control 464 00:20:10,950 --> 00:20:08,960 symptoms of strokes etc graphology is 465 00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:10,960 used for assessing potential employees 466 00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:12,480 is probably the best known application 467 00:20:16,789 --> 00:20:13,039 of 468 00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:16,799 controversial 469 00:20:19,990 --> 00:20:18,799 job applicants should know that any job 470 00:20:22,710 --> 00:20:20,000 advertisement that asks for 471 00:20:24,789 --> 00:20:22,720 applications in writing may find their 472 00:20:25,750 --> 00:20:24,799 prospects at least partially decided by 473 00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:25,760 graphological 474 00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:27,840 analysis research in employment 475 00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:29,039 suitability 476 00:20:33,110 --> 00:20:31,679 has ranged from complete failure to 477 00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:33,120 guarded success 478 00:20:36,230 --> 00:20:34,960 as well as being criticized on ethical 479 00:20:38,470 --> 00:20:36,240 grounds 480 00:20:40,310 --> 00:20:38,480 although graphology had some support in 481 00:20:41,669 --> 00:20:40,320 the scientific community before the mid 482 00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:41,679 20th century 483 00:20:44,789 --> 00:20:43,200 more recent research rejects the 484 00:20:47,430 --> 00:20:44,799 validity of graphology 485 00:20:49,350 --> 00:20:47,440 as a tool to assess personality and job 486 00:20:52,149 --> 00:20:49,360 performance 487 00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:52,159 with studies being consistently negative 488 00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:54,000 with one study describing it as 489 00:21:00,549 --> 00:20:57,440 useless absolutely hopeless 490 00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:00,559 a 1982 meta-analysis drawn from over 200 491 00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:02,640 studies concluded that graphologists 492 00:21:06,549 --> 00:21:04,080 were generally unable 493 00:21:08,950 --> 00:21:06,559 to predict any kind of personality trait 494 00:21:11,430 --> 00:21:08,960 on any personality test 495 00:21:13,029 --> 00:21:11,440 in a 1987 study graphologists were 496 00:21:16,070 --> 00:21:13,039 unable to predict scores 497 00:21:18,950 --> 00:21:16,080 on the isink personality questionnaire 498 00:21:19,909 --> 00:21:18,960 the epq using writing examples from the 499 00:21:22,470 --> 00:21:19,919 same people 500 00:21:25,029 --> 00:21:22,480 the epq was devised by psychologists 501 00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:25,039 hands and sybil isink 502 00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:27,600 hans ising's theory is based primarily 503 00:21:31,029 --> 00:21:28,080 on 504 00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:31,039 physiology and genetics although he was 505 00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:32,240 a behaviorist 506 00:21:36,390 --> 00:21:34,000 who considered learned habits of great 507 00:21:38,230 --> 00:21:36,400 importance he believed that personality 508 00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:38,240 differences grow out of our genetic 509 00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:40,720 inheritance he was therefore primarily 510 00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:41,520 interested 511 00:21:45,830 --> 00:21:44,400 in what is usually called temperament 512 00:21:49,270 --> 00:21:45,840 hans jurgen i think 513 00:21:52,630 --> 00:21:49,280 phd dsc who lived from 1916 514 00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:52,640 to 1997 was a german-born psychologist 515 00:21:57,110 --> 00:21:54,480 who spent his professional career 516 00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:57,120 in great britain he is best remembered 517 00:22:00,149 --> 00:21:57,760 for his work on 518 00:22:00,950 --> 00:22:00,159 intelligence and personality at the time 519 00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:00,960 of his death 520 00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:02,720 i think was the most frequently cited 521 00:22:06,870 --> 00:22:04,080 british psychologist 522 00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:06,880 in peer-reviewed scientific literature 523 00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:09,120 he believed that scientific methodology 524 00:22:12,710 --> 00:22:11,440 was required for progress in personality 525 00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:12,720 psychology 526 00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:15,919 hans jurgen eisenc phd dsc 527 00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:19,120 who lived from 1916 to 1997 was a 528 00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:20,640 german-born psychologist 529 00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:22,559 who spent his professional career in 530 00:22:25,669 --> 00:22:24,080 great britain 531 00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:25,679 he is best remembered for his work on 532 00:22:30,070 --> 00:22:28,080 intelligence and personality 533 00:22:31,590 --> 00:22:30,080 at the time of his death isink was the 534 00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:31,600 most frequently cited british 535 00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:32,559 psychologist 536 00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:35,200 in peer-reviewed scientific literature 537 00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:37,520 he believed that scientific methodology 538 00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:39,919 was required for progress in personality 539 00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:40,880 psychology 540 00:22:44,470 --> 00:22:42,880 and in his early work isink was an 541 00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:44,480 especially strong critic 542 00:22:50,390 --> 00:22:47,520 of psychoanalysis as a form of therapy 543 00:22:52,149 --> 00:22:50,400 preferring behaviour therapy he was 544 00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:52,159 particularly critical of freud 545 00:22:55,669 --> 00:22:53,760 and his methods and wrote a book 546 00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:55,679 criticizing them entitled decline 547 00:22:59,750 --> 00:22:58,880 and fall of the freudian empire in his 548 00:23:02,310 --> 00:22:59,760 later work 549 00:23:03,669 --> 00:23:02,320 icing gave attention to parapsychology 550 00:23:05,190 --> 00:23:03,679 and astrology 551 00:23:06,789 --> 00:23:05,200 believing that empirical evidence 552 00:23:09,430 --> 00:23:06,799 supported the existence 553 00:23:11,110 --> 00:23:09,440 of paranormal abilities in the process 554 00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:11,120 attracting criticism 555 00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:13,840 from skeptics despite his fame and 556 00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:15,600 reputation in the profession 557 00:23:20,390 --> 00:23:17,600 he had a sometimes prickly relationship 558 00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:20,400 with the british psychological society 559 00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:22,559 he criticized it for being remote from 560 00:23:26,549 --> 00:23:24,159 the ordinary membership 561 00:23:27,909 --> 00:23:26,559 and was denied a fellowship however 562 00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:27,919 after his death 563 00:23:31,990 --> 00:23:30,159 the bps established the hans isaac 564 00:23:34,149 --> 00:23:32,000 memorial lecture 565 00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:34,159 the bps itself was critical of his 566 00:23:38,230 --> 00:23:36,000 alternative interests 567 00:23:40,070 --> 00:23:38,240 and in psychological testing a user's 568 00:23:42,390 --> 00:23:40,080 guide from 1995 569 00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:42,400 ranked a variety of procedures used in 570 00:23:46,070 --> 00:23:43,279 personnel 571 00:23:47,269 --> 00:23:46,080 decision making ranging from job 572 00:23:50,310 --> 00:23:47,279 simulations 573 00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:50,320 which had a high validity to graphology 574 00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:53,600 and astrology which had zero validity 575 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:56,400 which brings us back to graphology where 576 00:24:03,190 --> 00:23:57,290 we started 577 00:24:04,710 --> 00:24:03,200 [Music] 578 00:24:08,470 --> 00:24:04,720 and that's from what goes around in the 579 00:24:10,470 --> 00:24:08,480 skeptic september 2018 580 00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:10,480 and you can read this and most of the 581 00:24:15,149 --> 00:24:12,000 other issues of the skeptics 582 00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:15,159 39 years worth on our website 583 00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:16,960 skeptics.com.ou 584 00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:18,720 hopefully you'll enjoy them and then 585 00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:33,120 you'll subscribe to the magazine 586 00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:35,200 the skeptic magazine the journal from 587 00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:36,799 australian skeptics 588 00:24:39,909 --> 00:24:39,360 subscribe online to the world's second 589 00:24:44,029 --> 00:24:39,919 oldest 590 00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:45,269 www.skeptics.com 591 00:24:49,830 --> 00:24:48,400 and click the publications link you can 592 00:24:53,110 --> 00:24:49,840 also find there 593 00:24:55,669 --> 00:24:53,120 over 30 years of back issues 594 00:25:01,150 --> 00:24:55,679 free to download the skeptic the 595 00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:01,160 magazine from australian skeptics 596 00:25:14,070 --> 00:25:13,669 uh hello hello hello look i've just 597 00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:14,080 arrived 598 00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:17,039 here at the convention uh do i see you 599 00:25:21,510 --> 00:25:18,640 about my registration 600 00:25:24,149 --> 00:25:21,520 yes indeed and welcome to the secret of 601 00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:24,159 the secret convention 602 00:25:28,070 --> 00:25:25,679 my name is abhijeet and i'll be your 603 00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:28,080 group leader and this is andres our 604 00:25:33,750 --> 00:25:30,240 convention organizer good morning 605 00:25:37,350 --> 00:25:33,760 nice to meet you i um i've got 606 00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:37,360 my registration paper here 607 00:25:42,950 --> 00:25:40,640 ah a typed letter you don't see many of 608 00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:42,960 those these days let me see 609 00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:47,360 uh yes mr saunders yes i i booked online 610 00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:48,320 last week 611 00:25:56,630 --> 00:25:54,830 yes now here is your badge it's number 612 00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:56,640 1965 613 00:26:00,870 --> 00:25:59,520 thank you it's so nice to be here it's 614 00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:00,880 all very exciting 615 00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:03,919 i can't wait to hear the secret of the 616 00:26:08,390 --> 00:26:04,480 secret 617 00:26:09,909 --> 00:26:08,400 convention don't you well 618 00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:09,919 this is the secret of the secret 619 00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:12,000 convention um 620 00:26:15,029 --> 00:26:14,480 this convention is about the secret 621 00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:15,039 right 622 00:26:18,549 --> 00:26:17,039 yes sir the secret of the secret 623 00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:18,559 convention 624 00:26:21,830 --> 00:26:21,360 a very secret secret and in only four 625 00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:21,840 days 626 00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:24,320 you'll learn that secret but until then 627 00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:25,679 it's a secret 628 00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:28,880 so uh it's about finding out the secret 629 00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:29,200 of 630 00:26:34,390 --> 00:26:32,720 the secret right as i've said before 631 00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:34,400 this is the secret of the secret 632 00:26:37,110 --> 00:26:36,320 convention and that's what it's all 633 00:26:39,590 --> 00:26:37,120 about 634 00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:39,600 and as andre says by the end of the four 635 00:26:42,950 --> 00:26:40,240 days 636 00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:42,960 you will at last know the secret of the 637 00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:44,640 secret convention 638 00:26:49,510 --> 00:26:47,760 which for now must remain a secret and 639 00:26:52,950 --> 00:26:49,520 what about 640 00:26:53,750 --> 00:26:52,960 the secret the secret secret or just the 641 00:27:04,470 --> 00:26:53,760 secret 642 00:27:07,110 --> 00:27:04,480 in four days 643 00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:07,120 you will learn the secret of the secret 644 00:27:11,190 --> 00:27:08,159 convention 645 00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:11,200 a very secret secret that only a few 646 00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:12,480 people know 647 00:27:19,830 --> 00:27:16,640 uh wait a moment i'm getting confused 648 00:27:21,750 --> 00:27:19,840 the secret of the secret that's what 649 00:27:23,909 --> 00:27:21,760 we're going to learn about here 650 00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:23,919 yes sir what i'll teach you over the 651 00:27:27,669 --> 00:27:24,880 next four days 652 00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:27,679 is the secret of the secret convention 653 00:27:32,070 --> 00:27:28,240 which 654 00:27:36,389 --> 00:27:32,080 is a secret yes okay 655 00:27:37,909 --> 00:27:36,399 um so what what is the secret of the 656 00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:37,919 secret convention 657 00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:41,200 so that is a very secret secret but it 658 00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:42,480 will be made clear to you 659 00:27:45,750 --> 00:27:44,399 after four days so let me get this 660 00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:45,760 straight this 661 00:27:49,029 --> 00:27:48,320 this convention is about the secret 662 00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:49,039 right 663 00:27:55,909 --> 00:27:52,720 well i think i'd say it's about a secret 664 00:27:57,669 --> 00:27:55,919 a secret so 665 00:28:00,830 --> 00:27:57,679 which secret are we talking about 666 00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:00,840 exactly the secret of the secret 667 00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:03,600 convention and that my friend 668 00:28:10,870 --> 00:28:07,679 is a secret very secret very very secret 669 00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:10,880 so the secret secret 670 00:28:14,870 --> 00:28:14,000 that is a secret that is the secret i 671 00:28:18,870 --> 00:28:14,880 will learn about 672 00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:18,880 i i mean the secret of the secret 673 00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:20,720 here at the secret convention that is 674 00:28:27,029 --> 00:28:22,480 the secret 675 00:28:29,909 --> 00:28:27,039 convention 676 00:28:30,789 --> 00:28:29,919 is the secret secret but for now that 677 00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:30,799 secret 678 00:28:40,710 --> 00:28:37,600 what it is 679 00:28:43,750 --> 00:28:40,720 you don't uh so 680 00:28:47,190 --> 00:28:43,760 at the end of the four days the 681 00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:47,200 secret will be made clear to me yes 682 00:28:53,350 --> 00:28:50,320 yes as i've said a few times now 683 00:28:56,789 --> 00:28:53,360 the secret of the secret convention 684 00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:56,799 so now the secret 685 00:29:03,029 --> 00:28:59,919 of the secret convention is 686 00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:03,039 a secret right yes 687 00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:05,840 and i will learn the secret after four 688 00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:06,880 days 689 00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:11,600 right yes so so i will then know the 690 00:29:16,870 --> 00:29:12,960 secret in question 691 00:29:18,870 --> 00:29:16,880 the secret of the secret yes the secret 692 00:29:22,149 --> 00:29:18,880 of the secret convention 693 00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:22,159 and then you'll be able to not tell the 694 00:29:26,789 --> 00:29:23,520 world 695 00:29:29,510 --> 00:29:26,799 what 696 00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:29,520 the secret of the secret convention if 697 00:29:34,549 --> 00:29:32,320 you told anyone it wouldn't be a secret 698 00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:34,559 you see richard it's a very secret 699 00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:35,919 secret a very 700 00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:39,120 very secret secret so after the secret 701 00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:40,559 of the secret convention 702 00:29:44,950 --> 00:29:42,480 you will need to keep this very very 703 00:29:48,789 --> 00:29:44,960 secret secret of the secret convention 704 00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:48,799 a very secret secret indeed why 705 00:29:55,269 --> 00:29:52,240 that's a secret okay look 706 00:29:58,870 --> 00:29:55,279 i'm just gonna go and get a coffee 707 00:30:00,389 --> 00:29:58,880 the secret of the secret secret of the 708 00:30:03,830 --> 00:30:00,399 convention 709 00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:03,840 so what do you think i think we may be 710 00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:05,279 able to sign him up for the next 711 00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:06,080 convention 712 00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:15,440 really when is that that my friend 713 00:30:34,310 --> 00:30:32,950 hey fellow skeptics ben radford here 714 00:30:35,830 --> 00:30:34,320 with celestia ward 715 00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:35,840 your friendly host of squaring the 716 00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:38,240 strange a podcast that looks at topics 717 00:30:41,909 --> 00:30:39,440 ranging from legends 718 00:30:43,190 --> 00:30:41,919 panics and cryptids to media myths 719 00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:43,200 psychology and folklore 720 00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:45,039 breaking things down and picking things 721 00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:46,960 apart as we skeptics do 722 00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:48,880 we bring a few different perspectives on 723 00:30:52,149 --> 00:30:51,360 things celestia for example is a witty 724 00:30:53,909 --> 00:30:52,159 cartoonist 725 00:30:55,590 --> 00:30:53,919 and ben is a brilliant writer and long 726 00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:55,600 time skeptical investigator 727 00:30:59,590 --> 00:30:57,600 we don't always agree but we have fun 728 00:31:02,070 --> 00:30:59,600 trying and we learn new things 729 00:31:04,149 --> 00:31:02,080 join us for new topics every week or two 730 00:31:05,029 --> 00:31:04,159 or browse our backlog of evergreen 731 00:31:07,990 --> 00:31:05,039 episodes 732 00:31:09,110 --> 00:31:08,000 available on itunes and all your podcast 733 00:31:16,830 --> 00:31:09,120 feeding troughs 734 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:22,750 bye-bye 735 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:30,789 [Music] 736 00:31:35,110 --> 00:31:33,990 it's time once again to take a trip into 737 00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:35,120 the pages of 738 00:31:43,190 --> 00:31:39,600 trove now trove is the online 739 00:31:44,710 --> 00:31:43,200 depository of newspapers and articles 740 00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:44,720 and magazines 741 00:31:48,630 --> 00:31:46,880 catalogued by the australian national 742 00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:48,640 library 743 00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:53,440 and this can be found at trove.nla.gov 744 00:31:56,870 --> 00:31:56,320 dot a u and this week i thought i would 745 00:32:00,149 --> 00:31:56,880 look 746 00:32:01,909 --> 00:32:00,159 up the term ufo 747 00:32:04,310 --> 00:32:01,919 now in the past weeks i have looked for 748 00:32:06,870 --> 00:32:04,320 clairvoyant and 749 00:32:07,509 --> 00:32:06,880 yowie hunt so keeping in the paranormal 750 00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:07,519 vein 751 00:32:11,269 --> 00:32:10,799 ufos although ufos technically as you 752 00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:11,279 may 753 00:32:15,750 --> 00:32:13,840 realize you wouldn't describe as being 754 00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:15,760 paranormal because 755 00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:18,080 if they are indeed spaceships from 756 00:32:22,630 --> 00:32:18,960 another planet 757 00:32:25,509 --> 00:32:22,640 visiting this planet then they're simply 758 00:32:26,870 --> 00:32:25,519 part of the nature of the universe 759 00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:26,880 nevertheless 760 00:32:33,110 --> 00:32:30,000 and so our search finds 761 00:32:35,269 --> 00:32:33,120 many returns so i think i will just read 762 00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:35,279 to you a selected few 763 00:32:41,430 --> 00:32:39,039 and here's one from the cairns post 764 00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:41,440 and this article is dated wednesday the 765 00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:43,120 10th of may 766 00:32:52,230 --> 00:32:51,190 do you believe in flying sources 767 00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:52,240 washington 768 00:32:57,430 --> 00:32:55,440 associated press today's world sometimes 769 00:33:00,310 --> 00:32:57,440 seems to be made up of people 770 00:33:00,950 --> 00:33:00,320 who believe there are flying sources and 771 00:33:03,669 --> 00:33:00,960 those 772 00:33:05,669 --> 00:33:03,679 who believe they're not the argument 773 00:33:08,470 --> 00:33:05,679 apparently has been going on 774 00:33:10,870 --> 00:33:08,480 for a long time the u.s air force says 775 00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:10,880 people have been reporting unidentified 776 00:33:18,470 --> 00:33:15,200 flying objects since around 1700 777 00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:18,480 and probably a long time before that 778 00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:21,200 charles g ross president truman 779 00:33:24,470 --> 00:33:22,399 secretary 780 00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:24,480 said that the white house knows of no 781 00:33:29,190 --> 00:33:26,240 flying saucer's secret weapon 782 00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:29,200 that this or any country has developed 783 00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:29,519 but 784 00:33:32,549 --> 00:33:31,519 this did not put an end to all the 785 00:33:35,029 --> 00:33:32,559 recent talk 786 00:33:36,389 --> 00:33:35,039 why does the flying saucer story stay 787 00:33:40,149 --> 00:33:36,399 alive 788 00:33:43,110 --> 00:33:40,159 wow remember this is from 1950 air force 789 00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:43,120 officials say that it is because some 790 00:33:47,269 --> 00:33:44,960 people are convinced this country has 791 00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:47,279 developed flying saucer type aircraft 792 00:33:50,470 --> 00:33:49,519 and believe that officials cannot admit 793 00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:50,480 it publicly 794 00:33:55,830 --> 00:33:53,600 because it is in the secret weapon class 795 00:33:57,430 --> 00:33:55,840 other people are convinced that there 796 00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:57,440 could not be so many 797 00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:00,480 reports flying around if they were not 798 00:34:06,789 --> 00:34:03,760 real flying sources kenneth arnold 799 00:34:07,550 --> 00:34:06,799 boise idaho businessman on tuesday june 800 00:34:10,950 --> 00:34:07,560 24 801 00:34:12,869 --> 00:34:10,960 1947 made one of the first eyewitness 802 00:34:15,909 --> 00:34:12,879 reports on flying saucers 803 00:34:16,629 --> 00:34:15,919 the ones he said he saw were over mount 804 00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:16,639 rainier 805 00:34:20,069 --> 00:34:19,679 washington arnold told the associated 806 00:34:23,349 --> 00:34:20,079 press 807 00:34:26,190 --> 00:34:23,359 at boise recently that he is convinced 808 00:34:28,629 --> 00:34:26,200 the flying sources are of 809 00:34:32,069 --> 00:34:28,639 extraterrestrial origin 810 00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:32,079 but he said this does not necessarily 811 00:34:37,750 --> 00:34:34,480 mean they came from another planet 812 00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:37,760 sources and submarines connected 813 00:34:43,109 --> 00:34:40,800 it is obvious to me that there must be 814 00:34:45,030 --> 00:34:43,119 some connection between the sources 815 00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:45,040 and the mysterious submarines which are 816 00:34:48,389 --> 00:34:47,520 reported at times when the source's 817 00:34:51,589 --> 00:34:48,399 reports are 818 00:34:53,990 --> 00:34:51,599 prevalent arnold says that he has 819 00:34:55,510 --> 00:34:54,000 seen flying sources three times since he 820 00:34:58,550 --> 00:34:55,520 noticed the first ones 821 00:34:59,829 --> 00:34:58,560 and says that he has motion pictures he 822 00:35:02,390 --> 00:34:59,839 has concluded 823 00:35:03,589 --> 00:35:02,400 that what sometimes appears to be sun 824 00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:03,599 reflections 825 00:35:10,069 --> 00:35:06,960 actually may be power plants which 826 00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:10,079 pulsate every 20 miles in flight 827 00:35:14,230 --> 00:35:12,240 try tossing out that theory to brighten 828 00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:14,240 the dinner table conversation 829 00:35:20,069 --> 00:35:17,440 here is a conversation it invoked at one 830 00:35:22,069 --> 00:35:20,079 dinner party it is reasonable to assume 831 00:35:24,150 --> 00:35:22,079 some other planet is making observations 832 00:35:25,670 --> 00:35:24,160 of earth but one of the sources would 833 00:35:27,829 --> 00:35:25,680 have crashed by now 834 00:35:28,870 --> 00:35:27,839 we would have the wreckage not 835 00:35:30,790 --> 00:35:28,880 necessarily 836 00:35:33,190 --> 00:35:30,800 they could be so far ahead of us that 837 00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:33,200 they built aircraft that never crash 838 00:35:37,270 --> 00:35:35,440 but they would have landed by this time 839 00:35:39,750 --> 00:35:37,280 if they are making observations 840 00:35:41,430 --> 00:35:39,760 they've been doing so for years they 841 00:35:43,910 --> 00:35:41,440 would want to talk with us 842 00:35:45,589 --> 00:35:43,920 maybe they have radio maybe they have 843 00:35:48,790 --> 00:35:45,599 listened in on some of our 844 00:35:50,790 --> 00:35:48,800 radio conversations they may know all 845 00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:50,800 about the kind of world we have down 846 00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:51,760 here 847 00:35:55,589 --> 00:35:54,000 maybe they pick us up on television 848 00:35:56,790 --> 00:35:55,599 maybe they just don't want to have 849 00:35:59,750 --> 00:35:56,800 anything to do with us 850 00:36:00,550 --> 00:35:59,760 astronomers say objects made at great 851 00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:00,560 distances 852 00:36:05,990 --> 00:36:03,599 frequently resemble balls or discs 853 00:36:07,030 --> 00:36:06,000 charles forte author of the books of 854 00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:07,040 charles fort 855 00:36:10,069 --> 00:36:09,440 which air force officers have studied 856 00:36:13,589 --> 00:36:10,079 made a 857 00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:13,599 point to ghana information on remarkable 858 00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:15,440 happenings reported in the heavens for 859 00:36:18,310 --> 00:36:16,480 centuries 860 00:36:20,069 --> 00:36:18,320 he cites an incident reported in the 861 00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:20,079 british science magazine 862 00:36:26,310 --> 00:36:23,280 nature by admiral erasmus 863 00:36:28,950 --> 00:36:26,320 omani the admiral said he was standing 864 00:36:32,150 --> 00:36:28,960 outside a hotel in north wales 865 00:36:34,470 --> 00:36:32,160 and saw a light which immediately 866 00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:34,480 resolved itself into a clearly defined 867 00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:35,040 disc 868 00:36:39,829 --> 00:36:37,599 about three times the size of jupiter it 869 00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:39,839 disappeared discharging brilliant orange 870 00:36:44,310 --> 00:36:40,960 clouds 871 00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:44,320 he reported this happening on august 26 872 00:36:50,630 --> 00:36:48,800 18 94. his description is not dissimilar 873 00:36:53,910 --> 00:36:50,640 to descriptions made this year 874 00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:53,920 of flying sources fort cites dozens of 875 00:36:59,109 --> 00:36:54,640 aerial 876 00:37:01,510 --> 00:36:59,119 incidents dating back as far as 1704 877 00:37:02,950 --> 00:37:01,520 in that year people connected mysterious 878 00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:02,960 heavenly lights in england 879 00:37:08,550 --> 00:37:06,160 and switzerland with earthquakes fort 880 00:37:10,589 --> 00:37:08,560 quotes new york newspaper stories on the 881 00:37:14,230 --> 00:37:10,599 great airship case of 882 00:37:15,910 --> 00:37:14,240 1897 lights over kansas 883 00:37:17,349 --> 00:37:15,920 the new york sun reported that a 884 00:37:20,390 --> 00:37:17,359 mysterious light 885 00:37:22,550 --> 00:37:20,400 traveling about 60 miles an hour and 886 00:37:25,190 --> 00:37:22,560 directly towards earth 887 00:37:27,030 --> 00:37:25,200 appeared over kansas city a week later 888 00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:27,040 dozens of people near chicago thought 889 00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:27,599 they saw 890 00:37:33,430 --> 00:37:30,960 lights red and green swaying overhead 891 00:37:34,630 --> 00:37:33,440 a thing that had the shape of a giant 892 00:37:36,870 --> 00:37:34,640 cigar 893 00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,880 with a bright searchlight later was 894 00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:38,640 reported over texas 895 00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:41,680 similar reports came in from many points 896 00:37:45,589 --> 00:37:44,160 back in illinois it was reported that a 897 00:37:48,550 --> 00:37:45,599 giant airship returned 898 00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:48,560 landed in a farm field and took off 899 00:37:51,510 --> 00:37:49,200 again 900 00:37:53,190 --> 00:37:51,520 the u.s air force argues that if men 901 00:37:55,270 --> 00:37:53,200 from mars 902 00:37:56,230 --> 00:37:55,280 or another planet have been flying 903 00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:56,240 around here 904 00:38:00,790 --> 00:37:58,560 all these years sooner or later they 905 00:38:03,910 --> 00:38:00,800 would land and make contact with people 906 00:38:05,910 --> 00:38:03,920 on this earth astronomers have told the 907 00:38:08,710 --> 00:38:05,920 air force that they do not believe 908 00:38:09,109 --> 00:38:08,720 martian civilization would be within a 909 00:38:11,430 --> 00:38:09,119 half 910 00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:11,440 century of earth's development and we 911 00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:14,000 have not started using spaceships yet 912 00:38:17,750 --> 00:38:15,839 it appears that space travel from 913 00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:17,760 another planet within the solar system 914 00:38:22,550 --> 00:38:18,720 is possible 915 00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:22,560 but very unlikely the air force sums up 916 00:38:26,790 --> 00:38:24,480 the possibility that spaceships are 917 00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:26,800 coming from another solar system 918 00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:29,920 also was considered by astronomers they 919 00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:32,800 said that there are around 22 known 920 00:38:36,390 --> 00:38:33,440 systems 921 00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:36,400 beside ours but they said that the 922 00:38:40,710 --> 00:38:38,240 nearest is so far away 923 00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:40,720 it would take a flying source of pilot 924 00:38:46,550 --> 00:38:42,960 80 years to reach the earth 925 00:38:50,230 --> 00:38:46,560 even if he traveled at 18 000 926 00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:50,240 miles a second and that one 927 00:38:54,109 --> 00:38:53,680 is from the cairns post dated the 10th 928 00:38:56,950 --> 00:38:54,119 of may 929 00:38:59,510 --> 00:38:56,960 1950 and i don't see a byline but it's 930 00:39:02,150 --> 00:38:59,520 from the associated press of the time 931 00:39:02,870 --> 00:39:02,160 and the writer makes an excellent point 932 00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:02,880 here 933 00:39:06,950 --> 00:39:05,359 with the line astronomers have told the 934 00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:06,960 air force they do not believe 935 00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:09,440 martian civilization would be within a 936 00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:11,760 half century of earth's development 937 00:39:15,510 --> 00:39:13,520 and that's a point actually i like to 938 00:39:18,069 --> 00:39:15,520 make occasionally when talking about 939 00:39:19,510 --> 00:39:18,079 the possibility of uh aliens visiting 940 00:39:22,550 --> 00:39:19,520 the planet earth 941 00:39:25,829 --> 00:39:22,560 that the odds of anyone 942 00:39:28,390 --> 00:39:25,839 anything visiting this planet that are 943 00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:28,400 even within a couple of centuries of our 944 00:39:31,190 --> 00:39:30,240 current state of development is pretty 945 00:39:33,910 --> 00:39:31,200 remote 946 00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:33,920 and it's entirely possible that major 947 00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:35,040 civilizations 948 00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:37,200 far more advanced than ours have come 949 00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:39,839 and gone a billion years ago 950 00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:43,200 or of course have yet to evolve 951 00:39:46,870 --> 00:39:45,280 now let's trip back a couple of decades 952 00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:46,880 before that 953 00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:49,920 the sun newspaper from sydney 954 00:39:57,030 --> 00:39:53,359 and this is a report dated the 16th of 955 00:40:00,069 --> 00:39:57,040 march 1911 956 00:40:03,670 --> 00:40:00,079 aeroplane heavenly phenomenon 957 00:40:05,589 --> 00:40:03,680 oh what an extraordinary spectacle was 958 00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:05,599 witnessed by mossman residents 959 00:40:09,030 --> 00:40:07,599 who happen to be outside at 20 minutes 960 00:40:11,510 --> 00:40:09,040 to eight last night 961 00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:11,520 something red and burning flew across 962 00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:13,680 the sky from west to east 963 00:40:16,870 --> 00:40:15,359 and disappeared in the direction of 964 00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:16,880 manly 965 00:40:24,470 --> 00:40:22,319 sydney which aren't so far apart 966 00:40:25,670 --> 00:40:24,480 at first sight it looked like a fire 967 00:40:28,069 --> 00:40:25,680 balloon 968 00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:28,079 but this idea was dispelled by the fact 969 00:40:32,309 --> 00:40:29,680 that it was a calm night 970 00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:32,319 and would have needed a gale to have 971 00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:34,160 driven the object at the high 972 00:40:37,430 --> 00:40:36,880 rate at which it was traveling a mossman 973 00:40:39,990 --> 00:40:37,440 resident 974 00:40:40,630 --> 00:40:40,000 who with his family saw the mysterious 975 00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:40,640 thing 976 00:40:45,510 --> 00:40:43,119 says that when it got directly overhead 977 00:40:47,349 --> 00:40:45,520 it gave the effect of a chinese lantern 978 00:40:50,069 --> 00:40:47,359 carried by a bird 979 00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:50,079 the light it contained was not steady 980 00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:50,960 but seemed to 981 00:40:54,470 --> 00:40:53,520 flare up like a torch the flames were 982 00:40:56,430 --> 00:40:54,480 dull 983 00:40:58,390 --> 00:40:56,440 as though enclosed in some 984 00:41:01,270 --> 00:40:58,400 semi-transparent receptacle 985 00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:01,280 it did not rush through the sky like a 986 00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:02,720 fireball 987 00:41:09,430 --> 00:41:06,000 but flew as a bird flies 988 00:41:10,550 --> 00:41:09,440 and as far as can be judged kept a 989 00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:10,560 uniform height 990 00:41:18,710 --> 00:41:14,800 if the phenomenon had occurred in 1921 991 00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:18,720 instead of 1911 it would probably 992 00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:21,200 have been put down to some baked potato 993 00:41:24,150 --> 00:41:22,319 vendor 994 00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:24,160 changing his pitch from red phone to 995 00:41:28,390 --> 00:41:25,440 manly and 996 00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:28,400 stoking up on the way but baked potato 997 00:41:34,630 --> 00:41:31,440 men don't ride in airplanes at present 998 00:41:37,829 --> 00:41:34,640 it was a most mysterious affair and 999 00:41:42,230 --> 00:41:37,839 no one who saw it is able to advance any 1000 00:41:46,230 --> 00:41:42,240 reasonable theory to account for it 1001 00:41:49,349 --> 00:41:46,240 now that's interesting because i'm sure 1002 00:41:53,349 --> 00:41:49,359 the term ufo was not even invented 1003 00:41:58,150 --> 00:41:53,359 in 1911. i wonder 1004 00:42:01,670 --> 00:41:58,160 if some ufo devotee has gone through 1005 00:42:05,829 --> 00:42:01,680 and earmarked 1006 00:42:07,430 --> 00:42:05,839 items like this with the tag ufo 1007 00:42:08,870 --> 00:42:07,440 now that would be an extraordinary 1008 00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:08,880 undertaking 1009 00:42:13,670 --> 00:42:11,440 now let's go to the morning bulletin 1010 00:42:18,270 --> 00:42:13,680 from rockhampton queensland 1011 00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:18,280 in an article dated the 17th of december 1012 00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:21,119 1954 1013 00:42:27,829 --> 00:42:24,720 investigating saucer reports 1014 00:42:31,270 --> 00:42:27,839 canberra december 16th flying sources 1015 00:42:33,030 --> 00:42:31,280 reported by a nara fleet air arm pilot 1016 00:42:35,510 --> 00:42:33,040 are being investigated by naval 1017 00:42:37,910 --> 00:42:35,520 headquarters in melbourne 1018 00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:37,920 flight lieutenant of farrell saw two 1019 00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:39,599 objects which he took to be flying 1020 00:42:43,510 --> 00:42:40,560 sources 1021 00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:43,520 when flying at night over goulburn new 1022 00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:44,160 south wales 1023 00:42:49,109 --> 00:42:47,119 on a return trip to nara he told 1024 00:42:52,630 --> 00:42:49,119 authorities at the nara air station 1025 00:42:55,349 --> 00:42:52,640 and base for fleet air arm 1026 00:42:57,630 --> 00:42:55,359 that he saw what appeared to be lights 1027 00:43:01,349 --> 00:42:57,640 of two aircraft when flying about 1028 00:43:03,109 --> 00:43:01,359 285 miles an hour he said the sources 1029 00:43:07,589 --> 00:43:03,119 flew on each side of him 1030 00:43:10,950 --> 00:43:07,599 circled his plane then drew rapidly away 1031 00:43:11,829 --> 00:43:10,960 at his request a nara radar crew fixed 1032 00:43:14,230 --> 00:43:11,839 his position 1033 00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:14,240 and reported back the screen showed the 1034 00:43:17,349 --> 00:43:16,880 echo of another object flying alongside 1035 00:43:24,069 --> 00:43:17,359 his 1036 00:43:24,790 --> 00:43:24,079 known case in which an unidentified 1037 00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:24,800 object 1038 00:43:30,309 --> 00:43:28,079 in the sky has been confirmed by radar 1039 00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:30,319 authorities ascertained that there were 1040 00:43:37,270 --> 00:43:32,960 no military aircraft in the vicinity 1041 00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:37,280 at the time oh that's a mysterious one 1042 00:43:44,309 --> 00:43:40,800 again from 1954 1043 00:43:46,309 --> 00:43:44,319 now let's have a look at another one and 1044 00:43:48,230 --> 00:43:46,319 again i'm really picking these up at 1045 00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:48,240 random from 1046 00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:51,200 dozens and dozens and dozens of reports 1047 00:43:55,870 --> 00:43:52,319 now a little 1048 00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:55,880 dive into trove takes us to 1049 00:44:01,910 --> 00:43:58,880 1973 the canberra times 1050 00:44:05,430 --> 00:44:01,920 11th of april 1973 six 1051 00:44:08,390 --> 00:44:05,440 men site ufo over north brisbane 1052 00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:08,400 tuesday six men at a northern queensland 1053 00:44:12,790 --> 00:44:09,839 cattle station saw 1054 00:44:14,230 --> 00:44:12,800 objects that appeared to be quote stars 1055 00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:14,240 with tales of light 1056 00:44:17,430 --> 00:44:16,800 end quote moving from southeast across 1057 00:44:20,550 --> 00:44:17,440 the sky 1058 00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:20,560 at 6 00 am today mr terry o'neal 1059 00:44:24,950 --> 00:44:23,839 49 a taxi driver said i was taking a 1060 00:44:27,750 --> 00:44:24,960 bloke to work 1061 00:44:29,829 --> 00:44:27,760 just on daybreak i deposited him at the 1062 00:44:33,349 --> 00:44:29,839 men's quarters at about 6 a.m 1063 00:44:36,309 --> 00:44:33,359 when somebody said look at the lights 1064 00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:36,319 there were at least seven probably ten 1065 00:44:39,270 --> 00:44:38,160 and three were slightly brighter than 1066 00:44:42,710 --> 00:44:39,280 the others 1067 00:44:43,829 --> 00:44:42,720 they were not in formation mr o'neal 1068 00:44:46,470 --> 00:44:43,839 said five other men 1069 00:44:48,230 --> 00:44:46,480 outside the quarters at cannabis station 1070 00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:48,240 120 miles north of 1071 00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:51,520 julia creek also saw the lights however 1072 00:44:57,670 --> 00:44:53,119 mr o'neal said 1073 00:45:01,349 --> 00:44:57,680 he had seen a more brilliant ufo in 1948 1074 00:45:04,150 --> 00:45:01,359 he also had seen comets and medias and 1075 00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:04,160 could distinguish them from what he saw 1076 00:45:07,670 --> 00:45:05,520 today 1077 00:45:08,630 --> 00:45:07,680 and the article continues melbourne 1078 00:45:11,190 --> 00:45:08,640 tuesday 1079 00:45:12,630 --> 00:45:11,200 an unidentified flying object cited over 1080 00:45:14,870 --> 00:45:12,640 victoria last night 1081 00:45:15,990 --> 00:45:14,880 has been identified as a soviet 1082 00:45:18,150 --> 00:45:16,000 satellite 1083 00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:18,160 after investigating a flood of reports 1084 00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:19,599 about a bright 1085 00:45:23,950 --> 00:45:22,079 light which traveled at high speed and 1086 00:45:26,870 --> 00:45:23,960 left a vapor trail 1087 00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:26,880 rwaf and that's royal australian air 1088 00:45:30,630 --> 00:45:27,520 force 1089 00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:30,640 officials decided it was cosmos 1090 00:45:35,670 --> 00:45:33,200 526 which was due to re-enter the 1091 00:45:39,190 --> 00:45:35,680 earth's atmosphere between april 3 1092 00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:39,200 and 10. now let's 1093 00:45:45,670 --> 00:45:43,119 head forward in time to sunday the 14th 1094 00:45:48,790 --> 00:45:45,680 of october 1979 1095 00:45:49,589 --> 00:45:48,800 from the canberra times protect privacy 1096 00:45:53,109 --> 00:45:49,599 of witness 1097 00:45:55,349 --> 00:45:53,119 ufo researcher urges sydney 1098 00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:55,359 ufo researchers have been told there is 1099 00:45:59,589 --> 00:45:57,440 a need to set standards of conduct for 1100 00:46:02,630 --> 00:45:59,599 investigations into reported sightings 1101 00:46:05,750 --> 00:46:02,640 of unidentified flying objects a sydney 1102 00:46:06,230 --> 00:46:05,760 ufologist mr mark muravik told the 1103 00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:06,240 fourth 1104 00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:09,920 ufo conference here that the privacy and 1105 00:46:13,670 --> 00:46:12,079 psychological health of people who 1106 00:46:16,470 --> 00:46:13,680 report sightings 1107 00:46:18,069 --> 00:46:16,480 must be respected mr maravik said 1108 00:46:19,510 --> 00:46:18,079 investigators should think before 1109 00:46:22,630 --> 00:46:19,520 revealing witnesses 1110 00:46:24,790 --> 00:46:22,640 names to the media because this often 1111 00:46:25,750 --> 00:46:24,800 led to sensational publicity and 1112 00:46:28,069 --> 00:46:25,760 harassment 1113 00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:28,079 of the witness he said child witnesses 1114 00:46:33,109 --> 00:46:30,000 should be protected from possible 1115 00:46:36,069 --> 00:46:33,119 anxiety about what they had seen even if 1116 00:46:38,069 --> 00:46:36,079 this meant calling off the investigation 1117 00:46:39,349 --> 00:46:38,079 and if an investigator came across a 1118 00:46:41,910 --> 00:46:39,359 witness who appeared 1119 00:46:44,670 --> 00:46:41,920 mentally unstable he should get 1120 00:46:48,069 --> 00:46:44,680 psychiatric help to assess the witness's 1121 00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:48,079 reliability mr moravik said witnesses 1122 00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:48,560 often 1123 00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:50,400 asked the investigator for an 1124 00:46:55,030 --> 00:46:52,400 explanation of what they had seen 1125 00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:55,040 he said an investigator could discuss 1126 00:46:59,030 --> 00:46:56,240 his pet theory 1127 00:46:59,829 --> 00:46:59,040 but he should add that there were other 1128 00:47:02,550 --> 00:46:59,839 theories 1129 00:47:03,430 --> 00:47:02,560 at this stage of ufo research nobody 1130 00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:03,440 really knew 1131 00:47:09,750 --> 00:47:07,040 the answers mr moravik is one of about 1132 00:47:11,270 --> 00:47:09,760 30 ufologists attending a three-day 1133 00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:11,280 conference in sydney 1134 00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:13,200 tomorrow delegates will be asked to 1135 00:47:17,430 --> 00:47:14,400 decide whether 1136 00:47:18,790 --> 00:47:17,440 to form an australian center for ufo 1137 00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:18,800 studies 1138 00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:21,760 documented evidence of hundreds of ufo 1139 00:47:25,990 --> 00:47:23,520 sightings and related phenomena 1140 00:47:28,630 --> 00:47:26,000 was presented at the conference the 1141 00:47:29,829 --> 00:47:28,640 ufologists also saw a film of a sighting 1142 00:47:33,109 --> 00:47:29,839 by three people 1143 00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:33,119 at ben boyd national park near eden 1144 00:47:38,470 --> 00:47:36,240 in southern new south wales now 1145 00:47:40,309 --> 00:47:38,480 1979 okay so that's a couple of years 1146 00:47:42,230 --> 00:47:40,319 after the movie close encounters of the 1147 00:47:45,270 --> 00:47:42,240 third kind came out 1148 00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:45,280 and as i recall from that time in 1149 00:47:49,510 --> 00:47:46,400 history 1150 00:47:52,549 --> 00:47:49,520 uh ufos were very much 1151 00:47:55,510 --> 00:47:52,559 in the public imagination 1152 00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:55,520 now changing the search parameters a 1153 00:47:58,710 --> 00:47:56,000 little bit 1154 00:47:59,270 --> 00:47:58,720 i've typed in the word or the words 1155 00:48:03,030 --> 00:47:59,280 flying 1156 00:48:04,950 --> 00:48:03,040 saucer and what's come up from 1950 the 1157 00:48:08,870 --> 00:48:04,960 first of december from the golden 1158 00:48:11,190 --> 00:48:08,880 evening post flying saucer sydney 1159 00:48:13,109 --> 00:48:11,200 the flying saucer which many people saw 1160 00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:13,119 in southern queensland and northern new 1161 00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:15,119 south wales on wednesday night 1162 00:48:19,430 --> 00:48:18,079 has been identified as a media the 1163 00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:19,440 government astronomer 1164 00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:23,520 wood 1165 00:48:26,549 --> 00:48:26,160 said it was about 80 miles up in the air 1166 00:48:30,309 --> 00:48:26,559 and 1167 00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:30,319 traveling at about 25 miles a second 1168 00:48:33,589 --> 00:48:32,240 government astronomer that sounds like a 1169 00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:33,599 good job 1170 00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:36,240 and now we find something reported in 1171 00:48:40,950 --> 00:48:37,760 examiner which is 1172 00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:40,960 a tasmanian newspaper of the time 1173 00:48:47,510 --> 00:48:45,119 16th of december 1952 flying saucer 1174 00:48:49,510 --> 00:48:47,520 a flying saucer is reported to have been 1175 00:48:52,870 --> 00:48:49,520 sighted over bendigo at 6 1176 00:48:55,910 --> 00:48:52,880 30 am yesterday mr ken torpy 1177 00:48:56,630 --> 00:48:55,920 holman street bendigo said he heard 1178 00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:56,640 motors 1179 00:49:02,950 --> 00:48:59,760 like 10 jet planes and looked up 1180 00:49:03,510 --> 00:49:02,960 and saw a silver disk spinning slowly 1181 00:49:07,030 --> 00:49:03,520 against 1182 00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:07,040 the clear blue sky it then 1183 00:49:12,870 --> 00:49:08,800 rose and traveled in a northerly 1184 00:49:14,470 --> 00:49:12,880 direction his wife heard the noise 1185 00:49:15,990 --> 00:49:14,480 what an interesting little report that 1186 00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:16,000 was now 1187 00:49:20,870 --> 00:49:19,280 let's end with a report from the daily 1188 00:49:24,390 --> 00:49:20,880 telegraph newspaper from 1189 00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:24,400 sydney on the 1190 00:49:30,790 --> 00:49:28,800 4th of june 1954 1191 00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:30,800 and it appears to be in the letters 1192 00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:31,920 section 1193 00:49:36,630 --> 00:49:34,960 flying saucer sir 1194 00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:36,640 i shall be most grateful for your 1195 00:49:40,870 --> 00:49:38,640 assistance in combating 1196 00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:40,880 a current rumor to the effect that the 1197 00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:43,040 australian flying saucer bureau 1198 00:49:47,510 --> 00:49:45,839 has in its possession a piece of a 1199 00:49:50,470 --> 00:49:47,520 flying saucer 1200 00:49:51,910 --> 00:49:50,480 the story is being denied by myself on 1201 00:49:54,069 --> 00:49:51,920 behalf of the bureau 1202 00:49:56,470 --> 00:49:54,079 and probably arose from the admitted 1203 00:49:58,150 --> 00:49:56,480 fact that the bureau has received from 1204 00:50:00,390 --> 00:49:58,160 shepparton victoria 1205 00:50:01,589 --> 00:50:00,400 a portion of one of the several 1206 00:50:04,390 --> 00:50:01,599 mysterious 1207 00:50:06,470 --> 00:50:04,400 30-foot long unidentified objects 1208 00:50:09,510 --> 00:50:06,480 observed passing over the town 1209 00:50:13,910 --> 00:50:09,520 at 4 pm and again at 4 30 pm 1210 00:50:16,069 --> 00:50:13,920 on may 12th it is proposed to submit the 1211 00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:16,079 portion of the strange material 1212 00:50:21,990 --> 00:50:19,200 in our possession to chemical and or 1213 00:50:24,069 --> 00:50:22,000 whatever other analysis may be necessary 1214 00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:24,079 in order to determine its exact 1215 00:50:29,430 --> 00:50:26,880 composition and origin 1216 00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:29,440 until the result of expert analysis is 1217 00:50:33,829 --> 00:50:30,400 received 1218 00:50:37,589 --> 00:50:33,839 no further comment can be made 1219 00:50:41,589 --> 00:50:37,599 and that is signed edgar r gerald 1220 00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:41,599 director australian flying saucer bureau 1221 00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:44,640 fairfield new south wales 1222 00:50:47,990 --> 00:50:46,800 now that's a terrific one i love it the 1223 00:50:51,190 --> 00:50:48,000 director 1224 00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:51,200 of the australian flying saucer bureau 1225 00:50:55,750 --> 00:50:53,760 wow actually that's inspired me to look 1226 00:50:59,030 --> 00:50:55,760 for just one more and i've put in the 1227 00:51:02,030 --> 00:50:59,040 search words flying saucer bureau 1228 00:51:05,910 --> 00:51:02,040 and we arrive on the 19th of february 1229 00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:05,920 1954 the sydney morning herald 1230 00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:10,640 strange aircraft over the alice 1231 00:51:15,910 --> 00:51:14,079 alice springs thursday three alice 1232 00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:15,920 springs residents said today 1233 00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:18,720 that a strange aircraft streaked over 1234 00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:19,680 the town 1235 00:51:26,069 --> 00:51:22,800 at 4 30 yesterday morning 1236 00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:26,079 they are mr eric knight businessman and 1237 00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:27,200 returned soldier 1238 00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:30,800 his wife and mrs g schmidt mr knight 1239 00:51:33,829 --> 00:51:31,760 said that he was 1240 00:51:36,790 --> 00:51:33,839 lying awake when he heard what he 1241 00:51:39,829 --> 00:51:36,800 thought was a jet plane roar overhead 1242 00:51:40,950 --> 00:51:39,839 apparently at terrific speed he thought 1243 00:51:43,510 --> 00:51:40,960 no more of the 1244 00:51:44,230 --> 00:51:43,520 incident until he found that no jet 1245 00:51:47,430 --> 00:51:44,240 plane 1246 00:51:48,150 --> 00:51:47,440 was in the area at the time on january 1247 00:51:51,430 --> 00:51:48,160 15th 1248 00:51:52,630 --> 00:51:51,440 mr ken heslip and five other alice 1249 00:51:55,510 --> 00:51:52,640 springs people 1250 00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:55,520 reported having seen and heard strange 1251 00:51:58,710 --> 00:51:56,640 aircraft 1252 00:51:59,910 --> 00:51:58,720 he said today that the sound which mr 1253 00:52:02,630 --> 00:51:59,920 knight described 1254 00:52:04,069 --> 00:52:02,640 was exactly the same as he heard the 1255 00:52:06,309 --> 00:52:04,079 alice springs newspaper 1256 00:52:07,589 --> 00:52:06,319 the centralian advocate recently 1257 00:52:10,390 --> 00:52:07,599 published a photograph 1258 00:52:10,870 --> 00:52:10,400 of a quote flying saucer over alice and 1259 00:52:13,430 --> 00:52:10,880 quote 1260 00:52:14,870 --> 00:52:13,440 which it received from an unidentified 1261 00:52:17,270 --> 00:52:14,880 correspondent 1262 00:52:19,670 --> 00:52:17,280 well that's appropriate enough i guess 1263 00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:19,680 the australian flying saucer bureau 1264 00:52:24,549 --> 00:52:21,359 headquarters of which are in new south 1265 00:52:27,589 --> 00:52:24,559 wales has asked the photographer 1266 00:52:30,549 --> 00:52:27,599 through the paper to reveal his identity 1267 00:52:31,589 --> 00:52:30,559 to the bureau it's a bit men in black 1268 00:52:33,430 --> 00:52:31,599 isn't it 1269 00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:33,440 all right just just just one more 1270 00:52:39,829 --> 00:52:36,240 because i'm having a lot of fun 1271 00:52:42,710 --> 00:52:39,839 and we jump in our time machine and 1272 00:52:43,589 --> 00:52:42,720 we land in the year 1952 on the 7th of 1273 00:52:46,549 --> 00:52:43,599 august 1274 00:52:47,349 --> 00:52:46,559 goldman evening post and the article 1275 00:52:49,510 --> 00:52:47,359 says 1276 00:52:50,470 --> 00:52:49,520 little report have you seen a flying 1277 00:52:53,829 --> 00:52:50,480 saucer 1278 00:52:55,750 --> 00:52:53,839 sydney flying sources really exist 1279 00:52:57,750 --> 00:52:55,760 according to the founder of the 1280 00:53:01,109 --> 00:52:57,760 australian flying source of bureau 1281 00:53:03,109 --> 00:53:01,119 mr e gerald mr gerald said he was 1282 00:53:05,750 --> 00:53:03,119 definitely of the opinion 1283 00:53:06,870 --> 00:53:05,760 that the sources existed after years of 1284 00:53:09,670 --> 00:53:06,880 long analysis 1285 00:53:11,910 --> 00:53:09,680 and comparison of the source of reports 1286 00:53:15,589 --> 00:53:11,920 mr gerald wants to contact anyone 1287 00:53:18,630 --> 00:53:15,599 who has seen a saucer so 1288 00:53:20,470 --> 00:53:18,640 there's a little roundup of just some 1289 00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:20,480 of the dozens and dozens and dozens of 1290 00:53:25,430 --> 00:53:23,040 ufo flying saucer type reports 1291 00:53:29,430 --> 00:53:25,440 reported in some australian newspapers 1292 00:53:32,790 --> 00:53:29,440 over the decades 1293 00:53:37,030 --> 00:53:32,800 and again you have at your fingertips 1294 00:53:39,910 --> 00:53:37,040 a treasure trove of digitized newspapers 1295 00:53:42,150 --> 00:53:39,920 periodicals and magazines from australia 1296 00:53:45,190 --> 00:53:42,160 and all you need do is visit 1297 00:53:48,470 --> 00:53:45,200 trove t-r-o-v-e trove 1298 00:53:58,560 --> 00:53:48,480 dot n-l-a dot gov dot a-u 1299 00:53:58,570 --> 00:54:08,150 [Music] 1300 00:54:11,510 --> 00:54:09,910 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1301 00:54:13,270 --> 00:54:11,520 zone and i 1302 00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:13,280 look forward to the pleasure of your 1303 00:54:17,910 --> 00:54:14,720 company 1304 00:54:19,030 --> 00:54:17,920 on the 21st which is tomorrow here in 1305 00:54:21,829 --> 00:54:19,040 australia 1306 00:54:24,069 --> 00:54:21,839 in the evening at skeptics cafe where i 1307 00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:24,079 will be giving a live 1308 00:54:29,589 --> 00:54:27,280 talk via zoom 20 years of skeptical 1309 00:54:32,950 --> 00:54:29,599 investigation some of the highlights 1310 00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:32,960 and some of the low lights now thank you 1311 00:54:36,549 --> 00:54:34,240 to michelle biggesmar for that 1312 00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:36,559 interesting report about the graffiti 1313 00:54:40,710 --> 00:54:39,280 in melbourne and if you want to see the 1314 00:54:43,750 --> 00:54:40,720 pictures yourself 1315 00:54:44,390 --> 00:54:43,760 the the graffiti those pictures will be 1316 00:54:47,589 --> 00:54:44,400 available 1317 00:54:50,230 --> 00:54:47,599 on the skeptic zone facebook page and to 1318 00:54:52,069 --> 00:54:50,240 get to that page is very easy you can 1319 00:54:54,390 --> 00:54:52,079 just search for skeptic zone on facebook 1320 00:54:57,990 --> 00:54:54,400 or go to skepticzone.tv 1321 00:55:01,030 --> 00:54:58,000 and at the top of the page you'll see a 1322 00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:01,040 facebook icon click on that and 1323 00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:03,839 that's where you will go now we look 1324 00:55:05,990 --> 00:55:05,359 forward to the pleasure of your company 1325 00:55:08,230 --> 00:55:06,000 of course for 1326 00:55:09,670 --> 00:55:08,240 skeptic on 2020 the australian skeptics 1327 00:55:13,670 --> 00:55:09,680 national convention 1328 00:55:16,470 --> 00:55:13,680 and you only have a very few days 1329 00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:16,480 to get your early bird ticket discount 1330 00:55:24,630 --> 00:55:21,440 head to www.skepticcon.org 1331 00:55:28,630 --> 00:55:24,640 and snap up those tickets today 1332 00:55:33,510 --> 00:55:28,640 thank you to those people and cockatoos 1333 00:55:35,670 --> 00:55:33,520 wow the cockatoos have come to take over 1334 00:55:37,430 --> 00:55:35,680 the trees from the rainbow lorikeets 1335 00:55:40,270 --> 00:55:37,440 thank you to those people who continue 1336 00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:40,280 to support the skeptic zone at 1337 00:55:45,109 --> 00:55:41,839 www.skepticzone.tv 1338 00:55:47,910 --> 00:55:45,119 via your patreon or paypal 1339 00:55:49,750 --> 00:55:47,920 contributions in fact in just the last 1340 00:55:51,910 --> 00:55:49,760 week some more people came on board 1341 00:55:53,270 --> 00:55:51,920 thank you very much i'll send you a 1342 00:55:55,829 --> 00:55:53,280 thank you note 1343 00:55:56,549 --> 00:55:55,839 this uh this coming week coming up on 1344 00:55:59,670 --> 00:55:56,559 next week's show 1345 00:56:01,510 --> 00:55:59,680 more book of tim more logical fallacies 1346 00:56:03,829 --> 00:56:01,520 with michelle bickersma 1347 00:56:05,910 --> 00:56:03,839 maybe maybe something else to do with a 1348 00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:05,920 typewriter and some poor fool 1349 00:56:12,150 --> 00:56:09,040 me doing something and thank you 1350 00:56:15,829 --> 00:56:12,160 to abhijit chanda and andras pinter 1351 00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:15,839 for for using their extraordinary voice 1352 00:56:19,510 --> 00:56:16,640 talents 1353 00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:19,520 in the the secret secret bit you heard 1354 00:56:22,549 --> 00:56:20,640 earlier on 1355 00:56:24,789 --> 00:56:22,559 i wonder what the secret of the secret 1356 00:56:26,870 --> 00:56:24,799 convention really was after all 1357 00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:26,880 but for this week with birds and buckets 1358 00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:29,440 and rain and 1359 00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:32,000 birds have flown away this is richard 1360 00:56:39,670 --> 00:56:33,359 saunders signing off 1361 00:56:42,870 --> 00:56:41,430 you've been listening to the skeptic 1362 00:56:46,109 --> 00:56:42,880 zone podcast 1363 00:56:47,430 --> 00:56:46,119 please visit our website at 1364 00:56:50,549 --> 00:56:47,440 www.skepticzone.tv 1365 00:56:52,549 --> 00:56:50,559 for show notes contacts and to access 1366 00:56:56,069 --> 00:56:52,559 the back catalog of episodes 1367 00:56:58,150 --> 00:56:56,079 going back to 2008. you can follow the 1368 00:57:01,589 --> 00:56:58,160 skepticzone podcast on twitter 1369 00:57:05,109 --> 00:57:01,599 at skepticzone visit our facebook page 1370 00:57:06,549 --> 00:57:05,119 or leave a review on itunes you can also 1371 00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:06,559 support the skeptic zone 1372 00:57:10,470 --> 00:57:09,760 via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone 1373 00:57:13,430 --> 00:57:10,480 podcast 1374 00:57:15,190 --> 00:57:13,440 is an independent production the views 1375 00:57:15,589 --> 00:57:15,200 and opinions expressed on the skeptic 1376 00:57:17,589 --> 00:57:15,599 zone 1377 00:57:19,510 --> 00:57:17,599 are not necessarily those of australian 1378 00:57:33,030 --> 00:57:19,520 skeptics or any other 1379 00:57:36,390 --> 00:57:34,390 earlier on today we were just talking 1380 00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:36,400 about uh superstitions and 1381 00:57:40,230 --> 00:57:38,640 people's faith in amulets and talismans 1382 00:57:41,510 --> 00:57:40,240 and so on richard saunders from the 1383 00:57:44,150 --> 00:57:41,520 australian skeptics 1384 00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:44,160 society uh has texted on the text line 1385 00:57:46,470 --> 00:57:45,359 saying the good thing to remember about 1386 00:57:49,030 --> 00:57:46,480 superstitions is 1387 00:57:50,710 --> 00:57:49,040 if they worked they wouldn't be called 1388 00:57:53,750 --> 00:57:50,720 superstitions 1389 00:57:55,750 --> 00:57:53,760 this is afternoons with josh seps on abc 1390 00:57:57,430 --> 00:57:55,760 radio 1391 00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:57,440 hello to the people who listen after the 1392 00:58:04,470 --> 00:58:00,720 music it's time for the dice game 1393 00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:04,480 now oh a jet 1394 00:58:10,789 --> 00:58:08,880 wow that's a bit rare these days 1395 00:58:12,390 --> 00:58:10,799 this is the part of the show where i 1396 00:58:15,349 --> 00:58:12,400 will roll a die 1397 00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:15,359 normally a ten sided die sometimes a six 1398 00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:17,050 yep 1399 00:58:22,230 --> 00:58:19,920 [Music] 1400 00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:22,240 nearly hit the top of the studio i think 1401 00:58:25,190 --> 00:58:23,040 and you 1402 00:58:27,030 --> 00:58:25,200 get to use your psychic predicting power 1403 00:58:30,309 --> 00:58:27,040 or dumb luck 1404 00:58:33,990 --> 00:58:30,319 to uh predict what numbers will come up 1405 00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:34,000 now this week i've found a d 1406 00:58:38,710 --> 00:58:37,680 12 bit unusual so i'm going to roll it 1407 00:58:40,230 --> 00:58:38,720 three times 1408 00:58:41,910 --> 00:58:40,240 in fact you can probably hear that i've 1409 00:58:45,109 --> 00:58:41,920 got a bucket of 1410 00:58:46,789 --> 00:58:45,119 little bucket full of dye nice now 1411 00:58:49,030 --> 00:58:46,799 where's my skeptic's own pencil here it 1412 00:58:51,190 --> 00:58:49,040 is so i'm going to roll this d12 1413 00:58:52,789 --> 00:58:51,200 three times it's time for you to use 1414 00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:52,799 your predicting power 1415 00:58:57,839 --> 00:59:01,589 it's come up seven 1416 00:59:09,910 --> 00:59:06,710 seven roll number two 1417 00:59:12,470 --> 00:59:09,920 it's come up two seven 1418 00:59:14,390 --> 00:59:12,480 two last roll for this week using your 1419 00:59:17,670 --> 00:59:14,400 predicting power 1420 00:59:21,750 --> 00:59:17,680 who says five susan gobek is that what 1421 00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:26,150 huh seven